Arsenal on FFP Watchlist

[Macho]

I doubt it will to the same level you're spending now. If you look at Kroenke's US franchises, there's a pattern of spending to build a foundation, and then doing the bare minimum. Who knows how that applies to football though, very much a different beast than US sports with the salary caps etc.

I know the Denver Nuggets literally have the league MVP on their team right now yet they're still doing cost-cutting moves on the management side but also on the team, even though they're by definition in a title-contention window. But at the same time, the teams are generally well-run outside of that, with the same hands-off approach he's done at Arsenal by employing (to some people ) capable people in key positions to run the teams.

Then again, I've read a few US sports analysts express surprise by just how much Kroenke has been spending on Arsenal in recent years, so it's probably impossible to guess. You do feel that at least some the current spending came as a direct counter to the horrendous PR from the Super League fiasco.

Thank you for your interest in our affairs.

 

[Batman]

View attachment 8767

Still rather see this than Piers Morgan.

 

[Makingtrax]

Thank you for your interest in our affairs.

 

[Batman]

I doubt it will to the same level you're spending now. If you look at Kroenke's US franchises, there's a pattern of spending to build a foundation, and then doing the bare minimum. Who knows how that applies to football though, very much a different beast than US sports with the salary caps etc.

I know the Denver Nuggets literally have the league MVP on their team right now yet they're still doing cost-cutting moves on the management side but also on the team, even though they're by definition in a title-contention window. But at the same time, the teams are generally well-run outside of that, with the same hands-off approach he's done at Arsenal by employing (to some people ) capable people in key positions to run the teams.

Then again, I've read a few US sports analysts express surprise by just how much Kroenke has been spending on Arsenal in recent years, so it's probably impossible to guess. You do feel that at least some the current spending came as a direct counter to the horrendous PR from the Super League fiasco.

Just imagine for a moment you actually knew something about American sports or at least learned something before talking nonsense. You can't even provide any evidence of this nonexistent pattern that you claim exists. He just handed out the biggest NBA contract in history to Nikola Jokic and the biggest guaranteed non QB contract in history to Aaron Donald within weeks of each other.

The Nuggets, despite Denver being in a relatively small market have 3 players earning over $30 million a year because he's been willing to tie them down to long term deals to extend the window of contention. They are 9th out of 30 teams in terms of payroll and the 8 teams above them in payroll having either been in the NBA Finals in the last 5 years or being in a massive market like Los Angeles and Brooklyn. That is not cost cutting by any definition. In fact the only time their payroll was really low was a few years ago when the nucleus of the team was still on its rookie deals because there are set scales based on draft positions for the first contract a player signs in the NBA so teams made largely of young players will always have lower payrolls until it's time for them to sign their 2nd deals. This is the same in the NFL and NHL where again, he has the 2 reigning Champions.

No owner doing the bare minimum wins the Super Bowl and Stanley Cup in the same year. His spending at Arsenal began immediately upon getting full ownership of the club and given that he's not just a successful businessman but also now a very successful owner, I would imagine that he'll figure out the level of spending he needs to be successful here like he has elsewhere. The notion that he can't or won't spend at the level he's spent the past couple of seasons when your conjecture is based on not even understanding how he spends with the rest of his teams is daft. Some might say there are 19 better takes you could have had as the only bubbles you blow are those of a team bobbing in the relegation waters.

 

[Dokaka]

Just imagine for a moment you actually knew something about American sports or at least learned something before talking nonsense. You can't even provide any evidence of this nonexistent pattern that you claim exists. He just handed out the biggest NBA contract in history to Nikola Jokic and the biggest guaranteed non QB contract in history to Aaron Donald within weeks of each other.

The Nuggets, despite Denver being in a relatively small market have 3 players earning over $30 million a year because he's been willing to tie them down to long term deals to extend the window of contention. They are 9th out of 30 teams in terms of payroll and the 8 teams above them in payroll having either been in the NBA Finals in the last 5 years or being in a massive market like Los Angeles and Brooklyn. That is not cost cutting by any definition. In fact the only time their payroll was really low was a few years ago when the nucleus of the team was still on its rookie deals because there are set scales based on draft positions for the first contract a player signs in the NBA so teams made largely of young players will always have lower payrolls until it's time for them to sign their 2nd deals. This is the same in the NFL and NHL where again, he has the 2 reigning Champions.

No owner doing the bare minimum wins the Super Bowl and Stanley Cup in the same year. His spending at Arsenal began immediately upon getting full ownership of the club and given that he's not just a successful businessman but also now a very successful owner, I would imagine that he'll figure out the level of spending he needs to be successful here like he has elsewhere. The notion that he can't or won't spend at the level he's spent the past couple of seasons when your conjecture is based on not even understanding how he spends with the rest of his teams is daft. Some might say there are 19 better takes you could have had as the only bubbles you blow are those of a team bobbing in the relegation waters.

What's with the hostility? **** me. I really wish the mods here would do something about this stuff.

I have no idea why you'd post such a rant while missing the entire point. How do owners spend their own money in the NBA? it isn't by just staying within the luxury tax, it's by going above it. Kroenke has refused to this regularly, making moves that do nothing but save the team money while hurting their chances to win. Just posting payrolls tells you absolutely nothing, because the team isn't losing money by just doing what is expected. Revenue sharing exists for a reason.

The Denver Nuggets are 19th in terms of luxury tax payments. This is in spite of the team being full of fantastic players, including the MVP. Source: A Complete History Of NBA Luxury Tax Payments, 2001-2022

An owner willing to spend would be going all in right now on that team. Just look at the difference between the top and Denver, it's ridiculous.

Just this very off-season the Nuggets did it again: Nuggets, Wizards Agree To Trade: Fans React - The Spun: What's Trending In The Sports World Today

I also literally said they still put capable people in charge. It's not like I'm suggesting Kroenke is intentionally ruining his franchises, just that he's known for penny pinching when it comes to paying out of pocket, especially for backroom staff etc.

I don't know why you feel the necessity to get aggressive and personal. We can disagree without making personal attacks.

 

[grange]

I doubt it will to the same level you're spending now. If you look at Kroenke's US franchises, there's a pattern of spending to build a foundation, and then doing the bare minimum. Who knows how that applies to football though, very much a different beast than US sports with the salary caps etc.

I know the Denver Nuggets literally have the league MVP on their team right now yet they're still doing cost-cutting moves on the management side but also on the team, even though they're by definition in a title-contention window. But at the same time, the teams are generally well-run outside of that, with the same hands-off approach he's done at Arsenal by employing (to some people ) capable people in key positions to run the teams.

Then again, I've read a few US sports analysts express surprise by just how much Kroenke has been spending on Arsenal in recent years, so it's probably impossible to guess. You do feel that at least some the current spending came as a direct counter to the horrendous PR from the Super League fiasco.

I've already gone through this and you're quite wrong -

That executive that the Nuggets let walk for the Timberwolves was shifted from his GM role to a new position because he wasn't making the playoffs. A new GM comes in and that MVP candidate and team all of a sudden are one of the better teams in the Western Conference. As soon as that executive leaves Denver and arrives at the Timberwolves, he executes one of the most lopsided braindead trades in NBA history.

The Rams continue to spend all kinds of funny money in the NFL so your post doesn't make much sense here. Now, the Rams did build up a very solid foundation through drafting but once their Super Bowl window opened they now spend creatively under the salary cap giving out non-guaranteed contracts that look huge on paper but fit under the cap. They are usually up against the cap year after year now that they are pushing to win every season.

Colorado Avalanche just won the Cup with a middle of the road salary cap spend. I don't know much about hockey and how many young players carried them to this win so it is possible you're correct about one of Kroenke's franchises.

The Kroenkes aren't really hands on for any of their teams. They let the people hired to run those franchises run them without much interference.

 

[jones]

Just imagine for a moment you actually knew something about American sports or at least learned something before talking nonsense. You can't even provide any evidence of this nonexistent pattern that you claim exists.

I don't understand anything about American sports, but did the spending/contracts at the Brooklyn Nuggets and Denver Goblins start recently or have they been big spenders for a while now?

Would be interesting to know if him becoming the majority owner at Arsenal coincided with his spending or whether he's changed with all the teams he owns, because I vaguely remember many years ago people were complaining about the yank teams being **** as well.

 

[Macho]

The Kroenkes aren't really hands on for any of their teams. They let the people hired to run those franchises run them without much interference.

You reckon KSE spending is here to stay? I'm not sure if it's because the club needs it or if they are trying to be competitive again.

Back in the day Stan said he didn't buy Arsenal to win trophies, but admittedly it does look like things have changed. Also, I appreciate that Josh isn't Stan so perhaps there's change in mindset?

 

[Dokaka]

I've already gone through this and you're quite wrong -

That executive that the Nuggets let walk for the Timberwolves was shifted from his GM role to a new position because he wasn't making the playoffs. A new GM comes in and that MVP candidate and team all of a sudden are one of the better teams in the Western Conference. As soon as that executive leaves Denver and arrives at the Timberwolves, he executes one of the most lopsided braindead trades in NBA history.

The Rams continue to spend all kinds of funny money in the NFL so your post doesn't make much sense here. Now, the Rams did build up a very solid foundation through drafting but once their Super Bowl window opened they now spend creatively under the salary cap giving out non-guaranteed contracts that look huge on paper but fit under the cap. They are usually up against the cap year after year now that they are pushing to win every season.

Colorado Avalanche just won the Cup with a middle of the road salary cap spend. I don't know much about hockey and how many young players carried them to this win so it is possible you're correct about one of Kroenke's franchises.

The Kroenkes aren't really hands on for any of their teams. They let the people hired to run those franchises run them without much interference.

I'm not talking about Tim Connelly though. As I said, Kroenke generally hires capable people. They also had Ujiri before him. They're just generally really low in terms of overall staff spending when you include things like scouting etc.

The Rams are a weird case. I find it hard to really find a pattern there given just how unique the situation is. Kroenke invested ludicrous amounts into the infrastructure around the team, bringing them back to LA and building a new stadium etc. It borderline feels just as much like a real estate project as much as it's a sporting project in some aspects. To my knowledge - and correct me if I'm wrong - the NFL also just generally have less avenues for owners to spend their own money, with the cap being an actual cap and not the NBA type structure of you being able to keep a team together long term if you really want to spent your own money.

I don't know anything about the NHL, so I'll take your word for it.

But I think we agree though, I mentioned that the Kroenke's generally hire capable people and don't interfere with the day to day running of teams they own. I don't expect the spending to bottom out, but at the same time I highly doubt this current level of spending will continue given his track record.

I can easily see Arsenal sitting like 6th or 7th in spending over the next 10 years but having overall better results than a number of teams above them, due to Kroenke's approach of trusting the professionals he hires and generally sticking to a plan.

 

[grange]

You reckon KSE spending is here to stay? From my perspective it looks like they've suddenly got the winning bug. I'm not sure if it's because the club needs it or if they are trying to be competitive again.

Back in the day Stan said he didn't buy Arsenal to win trophies, but admittedly it does look like things have changed. Also, I appreciate that Josh isn't Stan.

I think they'll continue to spend within the profit margins of the club which is what they do at every other club. How much have they actually injected into this project with their own spending? I haven't seen any figures that they are actually spending their own money for Arsenal. I think they give Edu approval to spend within these limits and we will. I'm sure they (Josh and the lawyer) are in his ear about getting profit in return for sales.

The Kroenkes are super patient and don't seemingly commit until they find a front office (Edu's role here) and a coach (Arteta here) who they believe can grow the team into a top side. The Rams spent years with a middling coach for some reason until they found the hotshot young guy and started having success. Rams fans hated the Kroenkes then too. It helps that hotshot had an executive who could spot young talent (drafting players from our college system) to build up the foundation. Ever since that happened, they've been top spenders with NFL allocated money to the team.

Kroenkes spend their money outside of the teams in the US. They spend big on stadiums, facilities, etc. They do spend on coaches and executives when they earn raises. It's hard to quantify or equate that model to the European football model because there is more freedom in PL to spend your own money if you want.

 

[grange]

But I think we agree though, I mentioned that the Kroenke's generally hire capable people and don't interfere with the day to day running of teams they own. I don't expect the spending to bottom out, but at the same time I highly doubt this current level of spending will continue given his track record.

I can easily see Arsenal sitting like 6th or 7th in spending over the next 10 years but having overall better results than a number of teams above them, due to Kroenke's approach of trusting the professionals he hires and generally sticking to a plan.

Yeah, we do agree with the basic gist. It really depends how much profit Arsenal as a business can generate in terms of what the club will spend. With future success brewing and deals coming in then I expect those returns to increase and the spending will continue at those levels.

 

[grange]

@Nacho, I didn't even account for Vinai's propensity to get us into crypto ponzi schemes and shady Chinese gambling mobile game deals. He could implode the entire club and put us into administration for all we know.

 

[Gunner D]

Just imagine for a moment you actually knew something about American sports or at least learned something before talking nonsense. You can't even provide any evidence of this nonexistent pattern that you claim exists. He just handed out the biggest NBA contract in history to Nikola Jokic and the biggest guaranteed non QB contract in history to Aaron Donald within weeks of each other.

The Nuggets, despite Denver being in a relatively small market have 3 players earning over $30 million a year because he's been willing to tie them down to long term deals to extend the window of contention. They are 9th out of 30 teams in terms of payroll and the 8 teams above them in payroll having either been in the NBA Finals in the last 5 years or being in a massive market like Los Angeles and Brooklyn. That is not cost cutting by any definition. In fact the only time their payroll was really low was a few years ago when the nucleus of the team was still on its rookie deals because there are set scales based on draft positions for the first contract a player signs in the NBA so teams made largely of young players will always have lower payrolls until it's time for them to sign their 2nd deals. This is the same in the NFL and NHL where again, he has the 2 reigning Champions.

No owner doing the bare minimum wins the Super Bowl and Stanley Cup in the same year. His spending at Arsenal began immediately upon getting full ownership of the club and given that he's not just a successful businessman but also now a very successful owner, I would imagine that he'll figure out the level of spending he needs to be successful here like he has elsewhere. The notion that he can't or won't spend at the level he's spent the past couple of seasons when your conjecture is based on not even understanding how he spends with the rest of his teams is daft. Some might say there are 19 better takes you could have had as the only bubbles you blow are those of a team bobbing in the relegation waters.

Interesting post this.

 

[Entropics]

This whole FPP thing makes for some interesting economics with lots of loopholes. Hopefully there’s nothing to this. I wonder how Nottingham forest are able to spend so much though. They’ve outspent Barca, I think.

In the end we're billionaire backed too so we could easily find similar loopholes to keep spending if we feel like it.

Maybe not with Vinai at the helm, but in theory we could.

 

[Jury]

£278.3m in 3 windows. Thats **** all when you consider the work we needed to do with world domination the target. KSE OUT ffs. Neto to the carpet though and KSE IN!!

 

[Hunta]

£278.3m in 3 windows. Thats **** all when you consider the work we needed to do with world domination the target. KSE OUT ffs. Neto to the carpet though and KSE IN!!

.3 you know.

Old fart.

 

[Jury]

.3 you know.

Old fart.

Oh alright then, let’s round it off to half a billion

 

[Hunta]

Oh alright then, let’s round it off to half a billion

Love you big daddy.

 

[Jury]

Love you big daddy.

Don’t worry son I’m blessing you with some goodies soon. We’ll be ****ing rich!

 

[Jury]

@Nacho Is my abacus broke or has Arteta spent nearer half of ‘half a bilion’? Apologies if I’m using an inaccurate source!