Arsenal v Everton | Sat 10 Dec 2011 | 15:00

[AFC-Phil]

Do you not think that our back 6 are playing tremendously well, partly because we have Ramsey, Walcott and Gervinho hovering behind van Persie? Think about some of the positives we've witnessed this season. We're pressing incredibly well, and creating many counter-attacking opportunities as a result, partly because we have Ramsey working incredibly hard to support Song and Arteta in recovering the ball. Furthermore, Ramsey's lack of care on the ball relative to his predecessor means that the opponent is gaining possession more often than it would have usually done, allowing us to both counter and showcase our pressing game on more occasions. The close proximity of the three in midfield, especially Ramsey as most players as the furthest midfielder tend to be laboured defensively, is a massive factor in our ability constantly snuff the ball out from the opponent

Similarly, Gervinho and Walcott's tendency to lose the ball very often, affords our team less time to push players forward, meaning that we aren't over flowing in the final third, and potentially opening up ourselves to a counter-attack. By losing the ball more often, we are inadvertently stronger defensively, as we aren't able to sustain pressure in the final third long enough to have players move ahead of the ball. Previously, we were sometimes too good on the ball, keeping hold of it for too long, having many players push up to support, and one careless mistake saw the entire team dissected. Nowadays, or like today for example, there were instances where the front three plus Ramsey were so aggressive and reckless in their attacking, that the back six just sat back and were in position to soak up any counter-attacks when the ball was lost.

By being weaker in possession, we are pushing fewer players forward, we are able to counter-attack more as we're not always in control, and we have many players back in defensive positions as we aren't able to hem the opponent back into their box for long periods of play. All of which has contributed to our defensive improvement. We are playing the way we are, because we've changed Fabregas and Nasri for Ramsey and Gervinho, and those offensive changes have had serious defensive ramifications. We wouldn't possibly be playing our current way with the former duo still starting, even if we wanted to, as their superior quality would have seen us continue with last seasons style where our defence was always vulnerable no matter the individuals within it. People often blamed our team for a lack of organisation, but it never was a case that. Have we only now started to work on organisation in training given our stronger defensive performances this season? Of course not. We are no longer playing in a way that places our defence in an incredibly vulnerable position, and that's because we no longer have the same amount of technical care on the ball in the final third.

IMO, the key to our defensive solidity more so down to our new pressing levels, than our lack of domination. When we were hemming teams in their own half around Xmas last year, we we're still keeping goals out. The 3-0 win vs Birmingham was a prime example. Hell, we even went 12 odd games without conceding a goal, with a defensive 5 of:

Szczesny, Sagna, Djourou, Koscielny, Clicky.

As for our lack of domination, I agree that we're technically worse in the final third, but we had our falts in this regard last year too. Arshavin was terrible on the ball and Walcott was poor on the ball (He's definitely better this year). Our newfound discipline is more so down to the indirect replacement of Cesc with Arteta. Arteta is quite disciplined and even where we're camped outside our opposition's box this year, we've always had him on a similar axis to Song. Whereas Cesc was so gung-ho is was frustrating. Admittedly, he played further up the pitch, but he did get into the box too often for my liking last year, instead of just supporting the play. Arteta's discipline compared to Cesc's constant desire to get into the box is the reason we naturally find ourselves with an extra man behind the ball, than we did IMO, rather than our inability to keep the ball in the final third. This is there for all to see when we camp in our opposition's half (This season). Hopefully you can piece together what i'm trying to say...

For the record, we're still playing possession football, just with the penetration that we need. Our season average of possession last year was 59%, yet today we had 61% of the ball, and against Wigan we had 62% of the possession. We're still good at (and attempting) to keep the ball. Oh and for the record, I absolutely LOVE Arteta's discipline when we have the ball. Statistically, he has the fifth highest average attempted passes per game rate in the world - behind Alonso, Alves, Xavi and Schweinsteiger. From those four, Arteta has a higher pass completed success % than all but Xavi, who has 93.4% compared to Arteta's staggering 90%. He's reminiscent of a worse version of Xavi.

 

[eye4goal]

Since we turned it around when has our offense failed us? Don't say Fulham because that was obviously a result of having played a midweek game against Dortmund.

Sure, Ramsey is not ready yet but Walcott and Gervinho have been great and in my opinion both have another gear that they can still go to if they work on a few things especially Gervinho who is still adjusting to a new league.

RVP specials saved us on afew games we barely won when we should have won comfortably. We could have got a result at Sp**s too in my opinion

 

[outlaw_member]

I agree with what you've written, as I've raised similar points myself, and they too have been significant contributors. There are also other factors such as the improvement of certain defensive personnel, so there are certainly a list of things that have helped to tighten up the ship.

I too once called Arteta a poor mans version of Xavi, but I beat you to it, hehe. In hindsight, Arteta was the best deep lying CM signing we could have possibly made, and I include players like M'Vila and perhaps, Melo.

 

[AFC-Phil]

Ramsey doesn't need to be improved upon, because he isn't a starter when everyone is fit - Wilshere is.

Gervinho definitely does need improving on if we're to move up another level though.

Then why post this?

Because as vital as he is, he's far to wasteful in his finishing and poor in his passing for him not to be needed to be improved upon, if we are to move up another level.

As I said, we're really going to struggle in the Champions League with his because when it comes down to those fine margins, Gervinho isn't going to be clinical enough or composed enough to make the most of his limited chances on the ball.

 

[AFC-Phil]

I agree with what you've written, as I've raised similar points myself, and they too have been significant contributors. There are also other factors such as the improvement of certain defensive personnel, so there are certainly a list of things that have helped to tighten up the ship.

I too once called Arteta a poor mans version of Xavi, but I beat you to it, hehe. In hindsight, Arteta was the best deep lying CM signing we could have possibly made, and I include players like M'Vila and perhaps, Melo.

The main difference between the two IMO, is that Xavi naturally likes to sit in a deep role, whil I think Arteta is forcing himself to remain as disciplined as he is.

Incidentally, I was Wish Listing Arteta last summer (Obviously prior to Wilshere's great season) as I thought he would complement Cesc and Song perfectly in a midfield 3. It seems that I would've been right afterall...

Oh and he's certainly been a better signing that either of Melo/M'vila would've been IMO. I still have the lingering doubt of 'is he good enough to start in our midfield if we want to win the League/Champions League?' What's your take on that one? Is he good enough?

 

[GOONER1991]

Gervinho has come into a struggling team, and has been part of our change in philosophy, and our subsequent revival. Yes, his finishing has been wasteful, however he consistently gets into these dangerous scoring positions. He beats players with ease, and is racking up assists. We need to remember that he is still adapting to this new league, and he is doing well. You can see that he's snatching at his chances, and this is because the Premier League is much quicker than what he's used to and he knows that he's going to get much less time on the ball. He's training with Thierry Henry, Robin Van Persie and to a lesser extent Theo Walcott, who can all teach him a thing or two about finishing.

Let's not write him off too early, he's only been here a few months and he's already made himself a vital cog in our system. Let's remember, a lot of you were writing off Koscielny, now look at him.

 

[Shadow Moses]

Biggest improvement for me is Arteta. He doesn't get enough credit for what he does. He works hard and helps protect the back four a lot more than any other MF player. He bring much needed solidarity to the midfield. I hope it's Ramsey that gets dropped when Wilshere gets back and not him

 

[eye4goal]

Do you not think that our back 6 are playing tremendously well, partly because we have Ramsey, Walcott and Gervinho hovering behind van Persie? Think about some of the positives we've witnessed this season. We're pressing incredibly well, and creating many counter-attacking opportunities as a result, partly because we have Ramsey working incredibly hard to support Song and Arteta in recovering the ball.

The return of Vermaelen and Koscielny's improvement are also massive factors. We played almost the same way for a couple of months last season and at the start of 2009-10. Lets see how long we can sustain this pressing game for. I do love the current model but I'd like to see it improve to a title-challenging level. I'd hate to see RVP scoring over 30 yet miss on a CL place

We are no longer playing in a way that places our defence in an incredibly vulnerable position, and that's because we no longer have the same amount of technical care on the ball in the final third.

That's fair point as we seem to attack with less players whilst we really needed to over-load teams to create chances last season. We could still keep the same model whilst improving in at least one position in January.

 

[outlaw_member]

I agree with what you've written, as I've raised similar points myself, and they too have been significant contributors. There are also other factors such as the improvement of certain defensive personnel, so there are certainly a list of things that have helped to tighten up the ship.

I too once called Arteta a poor mans version of Xavi, but I beat you to it, hehe. In hindsight, Arteta was the best deep lying CM signing we could have possibly made, and I include players like M'Vila and perhaps, Melo.

The main difference between the two IMO, is that Xavi naturally likes to sit in a deep role, whil I think Arteta is forcing himself to remain as disciplined as he is.

Incidentally, I was Wish Listing Arteta last summer (Obviously prior to Wilshere's great season) as I thought he would complement Cesc and Song perfectly in a midfield 3. It seems that I would've been right afterall...

Oh and he's certainly been a better signing that either of Melo/M'vila would've been IMO. I still have the lingering doubt of 'is he good enough to start in our midfield if we want to win the League/Champions League?' What's your take on that one? Is he good enough?

Arteta will be good enough as long as he's not the main man within the midfield. Naturally, his position in the team means that he will inevitably have to be one of the driving forces when it comes to gaining a foothold in a game. However, much like Wilshere, Arteta is a good midfielder, but our main attacking impetus in the middle third, at least until Wilshere steps up to another level, will need to come from elsewhere. Put it this way, if we are playing against Real Madrid and we're expecting Arteta to get us into the game, then we will be severely disappointed. So in other words, we still require a highly skilled technician in the middle of the park, if we are to really enjoy periods of possession against the top teams in Europe, and/or be good enough to win the major trophies. However, it is certainly possible to win trophies without one, as proven by both Chelsea and Man Utd over the years. Whilst both respective fan bases have persistently lamented their management for failing to sign the illusive creative midfielder, it was precisely the lack of one which made them possess a really well drilled and cohesive midfield that formed the core of a well balanced side.

Anyway, back to the main point, beyond Wilshere's return, it is a difficult question to answer whether we need another skilled midfielder, because as tempting as it is to purchase a highly skilled technician and place him as the furthest midfielder, do we really want to forgo some of the positives that we've recently been witnessing? Quality attacking minded midfielders tend to be ineffective from a defensive standpoint, which results in the other two having to over compensate defensively. Often what happens in such a scenario is that the midfield trio are then separated into two bands where the deeper two are considerably far away from the furthest one. However, by having a lesser skilled technician that is a grafter means that the midfield trio are always in very close proximity, allowing them to function better as a unit, even if there aren't any real outstanding individual contributions.

So unless we are to sign a superior version of Arteta or Wilshere, we will need to somehow look for greater quality from elsewhere, such as the wide duo. People are still clamouring for a creative attacking midfielder, but I am no longer keen on one. A strong central midfielder who performs box-to-box, but can also offer creativity is what this doctor would order. However, I can't think of such a player that we could viably purchase, to be honest.

 

[TheLoneFalcon]

Cheers for the great posts, outie and AFC.

 

[RUS arsenal]

Since we turned it around when has our offense failed us? Don't say Fulham because that was obviously a result of having played a midweek game against Dortmund.

Sure, Ramsey is not ready yet but Walcott and Gervinho have been great and in my opinion both have another gear that they can still go to if they work on a few things especially Gervinho who is still adjusting to a new league.

RVP specials saved us on afew games we barely won when we should have won comfortably. We could have got a result at Sp**s too in my opinion

There will be days when things are not going your way when you need that moment of brilliance from your star, but we have been creating lots of chances as a team from which RvP benefited greatly. When RvP is there, the team looks to him and rightly so since he is the tip of the sword of our attack but I think if god forbid he is absent for whatever reason, we have other players who are capable of stepping up and our solidity in the back means that we have the capability to grind out 1-0 wins.

In any case, our whole team deserves the blame for the poor start and the whole team deserves the credit for the turnaround so to blame Gervinho, Walcott and Ramsey for not being farther up the table is baffling to me. Since the awful start our attack has been menacing; Walcott, Gervinho and Ramsey created a lot of chances and our only CF has been finishing them off. Obviously we don't know what would happen if RvP went down but I don't think we would necessarily stutter.

 

[DK Gooner]

So unless we are to sign a superior version of Arteta or Wilshere, we will need to somehow look for greater quality from elsewhere, such as the wide duo. People are still clamouring for a creative attacking midfielder, but I am no longer keen on one. A strong central midfielder who performs box-to-box, but can also offer creativity is what this doctor would order. However, I can't think of such a player that we could viably purchase, to be honest.

Would Granero fit the bill? We have been linked with him and technically I think he is a very good player. I think he would work very well in our set-up.

 

[Invincible]

I'd describe both Ramsey and Arteta as being "strong central midfielders who perform box-to-box, but can also offer creativity". I don't think we need new additions in center midfield, we're stacked in this area with many quality options and talented upcoming youngsters.

For me, what we need is a top class striker period.

Another wideman would be nice as well, but if Ryo and Chamberlain make quick progress and start contributing to the first team then we'd be fine on the wings.

 

[Floating]

I would also put our very own Jack Wilshere in that category — I think he will displace Ramsey and our attacking game will improve. Jack is also a feisty player that can press, harry, and ride a challenge — he's perfect for this new midfield.

 

[Bossa]

Fantastic goal by Van Persie. He scored an exact copy against Everton a few years ago. I believe that Diaby gave the assist.

 

[fabo]

I thought today's goal was FAR better than the one at Goodison tbh, much harder goal technically. He chested the other one and hammered it from a tight angle, much harder to hit the ball today first time in mid-air coming across his body at pace.

Gets better every time I see it.

 

[Armor for Sleep]

They can be horribly defensive in games like this. I expect they'll put 10 maybe 11 men behind the ball most of the time and live off scraps.

Expecting a clean sheet and a 2-0 victory!

Close enough

Loving how strong we are defensively in recent games. Just need to add a bit more in the final 3rd and we have the makings of a great team.

 

[eye4goal]

I thought today's goal was FAR better than the one at Goodison tbh, much harder goal technically.

It's amazing how he can score such a great goal despite not having the best of games. He used to be one of those players that would never score when he's having an off day but not nowadays

 

[USArsenal]

Biggest improvement for me is Arteta. He doesn't get enough credit for what he does. He works hard and helps protect the back four a lot more than any other MF player. He bring much needed solidarity to the midfield. I hope it's Ramsey that gets dropped when Wilshere gets back and not him

i have to think that would be the case.. Arteta has brought experience and calmness in the midfield. Song-Ramsey-Jack would be good, but they are all young and 'relatively' inexperienced (comparatively).. for me, Arteta is the one who is holding the midfield together these days and allowing the likes of Song and Ramsey to push forward and/or create more

 

[redanddread]

1 Nil to The Arsenal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!

What a goal. Only saw the 2nd half of the 2nd half but oh man what a goal to win a game!

It would have been such a let down NOT to win on the anniversary of our 125th year-and what a scoreline to win with!