Premier League 2019/20: The race for Europe

[Notorious Big]

City spend what they like and tbf to pool even though i hate saying it, they have done it the right way. Meanwhile with us, utd and chelsea it went tits up. Utd are on the up slowly and chelsea are making smart signings.

But City also had money before Pep came and they were never so dominant under other managers.League used to be very tight until the end.Same goes with Liverpool,while they missed some transfers and didn't find proper manager.

Other teams in league also had very good budget and can buy quality from other leagues to get what they want.Imagine if they have little money like some other teams from Bundesliga and La Liga

 

[14Henry]

That's not the point, to get all those points you have to win around 32 games out 38. Wenger only won 26 in the invincible's year. If the other teams are all good, winning 32 should be near impossible.

We are talking about 2 extremely good sides. We are talking about a team that made the final of the CL twice in a row winning 1.

Instead of maybe saying how the smaller teams in the league are weaker maybe it's the fact that the best teams 15 years ago weren't actually as good as we think.

Champions shouldnt be drawing 12 matches like we did in the unbeaten season.

 

[field442]

Bottled it? He has the 8th most expensive side and finished 5th over 38 games. His board should be ****ing grateful. That's added value.

3 wins in 13 games. They were 12 points clear of 5th with 13 games to go. There’s no other way to dress that up than a massive bottle job.

 

[Sanchez11]

But City also had money before Pep came and they were never so dominant under other managers.League used to be very tight until the end.Same goes with Liverpool,while they missed some transfers and didn't find proper manager.

Other teams in league also had very good budget and can buy quality from other leagues to get what they want.Imagine if they have little money like some other teams from Bundesliga and La Liga

Chelsea were in reality the only rivals to city, utd were going downhill like us. Pool got klopp in and were smart in the market and pulled it off. The rest of league outside the top six bar afew teams, just spent money willy nilly to survive.

 

[Kav]

I never said it was weaker than 15 years ago, I made no reference to that. I said that you were wrong for using champions league final appearance as a marker for the strength of the league. That is literally only 2 teams out of 20 in the league, it doesn't mean the other 18 are good, great or better than average, there is no correlation.

Now if I were to compare against 15 years ago, i would say that the league today is more competitive top to bottom. However in terms of top end quality players i would argue that the league had a bit more back in 2005.

Look at the chelsea,Man U, Liverpool teams back then, then you had teams like everton, villa, tottenham, west ham that were producing talent, even fulham around that time had a few good players.

My memory isn't all that but i would say the top end stars are just about even but the middle of the pack of the past edges out the average players these days. What i will say is that modern players are much fitter than in the past.

 

[GeorgiaGunner]

You are picking literally a handful of players, Imo i am saying the amount of quality players is not the same.

I disagree. We’re 8th and have a handful of very tidy players, including one who’s arguably world class. Same could be said of Wolves, Sp**s, and Leicester, none of which qualified for CL. Even 10-20th clubs have a smattering of excellent players these days due to the massive amount of money in the league.

Liverpool and City have just lapped the competition, putting together the 4 best points seasons in their combined last 6. And that’s a function of ~6 world class players (with very good role players amongst them) in each side and all time great coaches, not an incredibly rich league being mysteriously crap.

 

[GeorgiaGunner]

Why do you think players arent as good now as 15 years ago? Who was the best RB 15 years ago? Better than TAA?

Who was the best CB? Better than Van Dijk.

Tell me a CM 15 years ago better than KDB?

Strikers you probably have a case because 4 4 2 meant there were 2 strikers. And lots of them in the league. Now it's more wide forward because of 4 3 3.

For me the players are as good now as ever. The league is more competitive. My only problem is the Arsenal I'm watching is depressing me more and more.

All the ‘weak league’ nonsense is just tacit defense of the Invincibles and would be nonexistent on these boards if we’d lost a game that year. Awesome, unique accomplishment, but it happened (most importantly) pre-sugar daddies at City and Chelsea (and to a lesser extent at other clubs like LCFC), Sp**s emerging as a force, and Liverpool’s return. And I don’t want to hear about ~Leeds and ~Newcastle falling off somehow counterbalancing that.

 

[Notorious Big]

I never said it was weaker than 15 years ago, I made no reference to that. I said that you were wrong for using champions league final appearance as a marker for the strength of the league. That is literally only 2 teams out of 20 in the league, it doesn't mean the other 18 are good, great or better than average, there is no correlation.

Now if I were to compare against 15 years ago, i would say that the league today is more competitive top to bottom. However in terms of top end quality players i would argue that the league had a bit more back in 2005.

Look at the chelsea,Man U, Liverpool teams back then, then you had teams like everton, villa, tottenham, west ham that were producing talent, even fulham around that time had a few good players.

My memory isn't all that but i would say the top end stars are just about even but the middle of the pack of the past edges out the average players these days. What i will say is that modern players are much fitter than in the past.

It's kinda simple,if league is more competitive than there's less difference between quality of the teams in the leagues,so any team can beat others on their day.Uefa coefficient can one of the indicators which league is better,while we can't compare all teams and have small knowledge where would Betis finished in EPL or Palace in La Liga.

Here's graph that shows that EPL was less competitve when they used to be dominant in Europe,while top 4 teams made bigger point difference than in seasons when EPL wasn't so dominant in Europe.And it was similar to La Liga.

 

[14Henry]

I never said it was weaker than 15 years ago, I made no reference to that. I said that you were wrong for using champions league final appearance as a marker for the strength of the league. That is literally only 2 teams out of 20 in the league, it doesn't mean the other 18 are good, great or better than average, there is no correlation.

Now if I were to compare against 15 years ago, i would say that the league today is more competitive top to bottom. However in terms of top end quality players i would argue that the league had a bit more back in 2005.

Look at the chelsea,Man U, Liverpool teams back then, then you had teams like everton, villa, tottenham, west ham that were producing talent, even fulham around that time had a few good players.

My memory isn't all that but i would say the top end stars are just about even but the middle of the pack of the past edges out the average players these days. What i will say is that modern players are much fitter than in the past.

I'm not just talking about CL. In the whole of European football CL and Europa league all 4 teams were English. Not 2. But 4.

If having 4 English teams occupying finals and beating Spanish, German, Italian teams to get to those finals that has to mean that in general the British teams were extremely strong compared to their rivals.

It's all a matter of opinion but just because liverpool kicked everyone's ass this year doesnt mean the league is weaker.

In 2005-06 Chelsea were champions. They won 29, drew 4 and lost 5. Finished on 91 points.

United in 2nd won 25, drew 8 and lost 5. Finished 83 points.

Liverpool lost 3 matches this year. Those past teams when the league was supposedly stronger only lost 2 more.

This City team that your talking about being so good and strong in such a weak league was beat.....wait for it....9 TIMES this season. 9. Not 5 like in 2005 when the league was so strong.

 

[14Henry]

Another thing. When a league is dominated the way United dominated it 20 years ago for such a long time that would indicate a weak league.

 

[Notorious Big]

Another thing. When a league is dominated the way United dominated it 20 years ago for such a long time that would indicate a weak league.

Real golden era was from 2004 to 2010 imo.Maybe they didn't win CL every season like La Liga teams from 2014 to 2018,but top 4 teams had proper quality.

 

[GeorgiaGunner]

Another thing. When a league is dominated the way United dominated it 20 years ago for such a long time that would indicate a weak league.

And crucially, dominating domestically with relatively modest continental success (in comparison).

 

[krengon]

04-09 is when Pl was at its strongest.. Really high amount of genuine 'superstar' players and world class players in general. Seems like we are entering another period like that with a lot of world class players and great talents possibly moving here now.

 

[Trilly]

But honestly. Havertz and Werner to Chelsea. Sancho and Grealish to United. Liverpool plays like the Nazis on amphetamine in WWII. City are going to spend 300 M on new full-backs for Pep.

We would do well to be drunk and in black-out at the bar for next two years.

I will experiment with cryogenics. Hopefully I can freeze myself and sleep for the next five years!

 

[Makingtrax]

3 wins in 13 games. They were 12 points clear of 5th with 13 games to go. There’s no other way to dress that up than a massive bottle job.

Nobody says you have to win or lose games evenly. Sometimes it happens like that.

 

[GeorgiaGunner]

3 wins in 13 games. They were 12 points clear of 5th with 13 games to go. There’s no other way to dress that up than a massive bottle job.

3 of his best 5 players (two defenders) have been gone since March. How would United have finished if they lost AWB, Maguire, and Pogba for the last ~10 games?

 

[Manberg]

04-09 is when Pl was at its strongest.. Really high amount of genuine 'superstar' players and world class players in general. Seems like we are entering another period like that with a lot of world class players and great talents possibly moving here now.

The era when our Almunia, Denilson, Bendtner, Adebayor etc squad kept making top 4 so easily every year? Naah can't agree with you there mate. I think the PL's stronger now than it's ever been.

 

[krengon]

The era when our Almunia, Denilson, Bendtner, Adebayor etc squad kept making top 4 so easily every year? Naah can't agree with you there mate. I think the PL's stronger now than it's ever been.

Those teams were way better than what we have now. They would have easily made top 4 these last few years too.

 

[Monstar-Gunn4r]

04-09 is when Pl was at its strongest.. Really high amount of genuine 'superstar' players and world class players in general. Seems like we are entering another period like that with a lot of world class players and great talents possibly moving here now.

I think the forwards were better than now. Like you had Henry, Ronaldo, Drogba, Van Persie, Torres etc. etc.

Who have you now Vardy and Aguero are almost done given their age, Kane and Aubemeyang are good but not at the same level as the above. Steven Fletcher was probably as good as Kane is.

Overall the level has improved though, I think especially in midfield.

 

[Riou]

The era when our Almunia, Denilson, Bendtner, Adebayor etc squad kept making top 4 so easily every year? Naah can't agree with you there mate. I think the PL's stronger now than it's ever been.

Did you even watch us back then, or are you just basing your opinion of those funny one of Carling Cup teams we had from back then?

Our squads between 2004-2008, all had a world class starting 11s, 04-05 is one of our greatest squads ever.

Only our 2008/2009 squad was somewhat weak back then, and when everyone was fit...

Almunia
Sagna-Gallas-Toure-Clichy
Cesc-Diaby
Nasri-Van Persie-Arshavin
Adebayor
​

...that would easily get top four this year.