Ratings and post-match discussion vs ManC

[ricky1985]

Alex Song completed more passes than Man City's midfield three in yesterday's game. Messrs De Jong, Toure & Barry funneled 76 passes to team mates between them. Alex Song completed 78 passes.

And it's not as if he neglected his defensive duties, he got more challenges in (8) than any of the Man City three.

BEAST

Nicked this from the Lobby, not sure of the original source, but very impressive, if true.

 

[est]

I'm actually quite surprised he's getting so little credit for massively improving his distribution. He releases the ball much quicker and takes less touches than he used to.

 

[USArsenal]

im giving him less credit because he is supposed to be our defensive shield in the middle of the park, and he's not really doing a great job at that..

its nice that he completes so many passes, but he shouldnt be attempting so many IMO.. those stats didnt show you how he had to foul players because he was out of position, almost got sent off and misplaced quite a number of passes and lost the ball in bad positions.

i will admit he improved in the second half, but I thought he was diabolical in the first.. he was acting like early-days Flamini (think Chicken with no head, barging into everything)

 

[ricky1985]

He was absolutely outstanding second half. I watched game back, and he barely put a foot wrong.

 

[AnthonyG]

People shouldn't let stats override what they see. If they saw it, that is.

 

[ricky1985]

Although, first half, he was 5 out of 10, at best. Misplaced quite a few passes. The contrast was stark.

 

[Shadow Moses]

I'm personally not pleased with his new role because we have far better players who could provide better creativity and end product than he could ever achieve in the final third. As a disciplined DM he's the best we have. He should stick to that.

 

[outlaw_member]

I believe that Wenger wants to emulate the deep lying + combative midfield duo, that I was referring to a while back. Conventionally, the deep lying midfielder is essentially that, a player who remains deep and is focused on moving the ball efficiently from deep areas to the attackers. As this player is generally positioned deepest of the duo, the partner who is usually an aggressive ball winner is then afforded the freedom to press all over the pitch without being restricted to retaining his position, as say a lone DM would have to.

As we've seen so far, Wilshere and Denilson are usually the deepest midfielders, with Song playing considerably higher with the freedom to press. It should work in theory, but I'm not too sure whether we have the right players for it. Denilson, IMO, would be better as the deep lying midfielder, because he doesn't play with the same offensive urge as Wilshere does. It's imperative that the deployed player adheres to the title of his role, so that the midfield retains stability.

Song is also too offensive inclined as a ball winner, so we end up having both our CM's constantly performing outside of their job descriptions. We seem to have that covered with more fluid interchanging occuring within the two midfield positions, whereby if one does go forward, the partner is aware to occupy the vacated space. I'm not sure whether it's a prudent setup against the bigger sides though, as such interchanging can be exploited, due to it being impossible not to make mistakes when there is so much tactical and positional changes occuring within a bustling game.

 

[otfgoon]

A few folks have pigeonholed Song playing a certain way so regardless of how he plays in his new role they won't like it. The argument that we have better players going forward completely ignores the fact that he still contributes a lot to our defensive game.

And for the record, Song had 4 misplaced passes, less than Cesc, Nasri, Arshavin and Denilson

Outlaw - You say it might not be prudent against the bigger sides but looking at the Chelsea and City games was that really the case?

I can't ever really remember feeling exposed defensively due to the midfield 3. I'd say against the bigger sides where we're likely to keep our focus is where it's more likely to work well, and games like West Brom where it may be exposed due to not respecting the opposition enough.

 

[yuvken]

I think we've recently had evidence that the first choice mid 3 is a thing to observe before cementing conclusions - Jacks position and contribution, and the 3 working together, has a lot of influence on how we'd like to see song do his bit, and in which part.

I don't share the happiness with song more forward against the big guns as focus is granted.
10 men citeh is not a game to tell (+song did well mainly after there was no tevez), and I wouldn't count chelsea as a perfect recipe to replicate. The danger in not helping to stop opposition attack with our big rivals is too big, it's a lesson we learned many times recently.

But having said all that, I must say that apart for a bad patch alex had early this season (yeah, I know: some still don't think it's over, as they keep reminding me), I didn't get the negativity to song. Important player, still developing, shame we don't have another one. We said it all last year, it's still true.

 

[TheLoneFalcon]

Excellent posts today outlaw, the similarities you've mentioned before are startling.

Cesc is at his best as an outright CM and while he's is still performing well it is criminal to minimize his involvement by effectively playing him just off the striker. The frustration is that a lack of penetration in the final third becomes apparent with him deeper.

Since Wenger loves experiments I think giving Nasri a run in the current Cesc role will do no harm at all as he's been a lot more direct lately and every facet of his play has improved.

With so much quality coming through and with Ramsey still on his way Le Boss has a few selection headaches on the horison I fancy.

 

[Herbert Chapman]

and exactly why would Dj be marking a right back unless someone had left the space for a rightback to push up

Of course Clichy left space behind him that Djourou had to take care of when he advanced. That's the idea. One player moves out of a position, another one moves in to cover. It's the whole point. It's the centreback's and the holding mid's job to cover for the fullback when he goes forward. Djourou knew that and marked the player accordingly. He just did a half-assed job at it.

Yes thats the system, and in reality the centre back moving to a flank to cover is a last resort, the priority is for the dm or covering midfeilder to get back and cover as fast as possible, thus allowing the full back to recover.

The last resort is the centreback straying.

The point Klaus is dependant on how well this system is utilised by a full back, you do not want a fullback straying too far forward if the back line has not advanced with him, this is all to do with keeping shape because the minute Dj moves away from centre you have more space on the right flank as well as the centre. It completley messes up the defensive balance.

It's all about the judgement and technical ability of the full back, if your gonna get forward you cant give away cheap possesion of the ball.

Clichy did both things many times,

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Look, I don't want to make a meal out of this because I generally rate Djourou and I've never seen his this bad before, but he was ridiculously bad all the same. And not because he didn't get enough help from other players. Look at the situation in the first minute of the game, for instance. Clichy is marking one player while Djourou is marking Tevez, who starts his run from a central position between the two centrebacks. There's really no excuse. It's just stupid play. It doesn't happen because Clichy is too far up the field - he isn't - or because Arshavin doesn't put in a defensive shift. Djourou gifts Silva a shot on goal all on his own because he reads the situation poorly and follows up by making two bad decisions. There were several similar situations throughout the game. Like when he decided to cover the ball instead of getting it out of the way in the second half, right after Song had scored. A forward-rushing City striker practically got a free shot at goal. Only a panic sweep by Fabianski saved us from conceding there. It's just poor reading of the game and poor awareness of his surroundings.

 

[Herbert Chapman]

Same as me and I agree DJ was poor but he was not helped by Clichy.

 

[redanddread]

After watching the game a for a 2nd time, here are a few things that stood out for me:

1. Arshavin had a stinker and he is a lazy c... (Surely Rosicky must start now)

2. Djourou had a stinker (albeit he won the aerial duel vs Tevez..)

3. Nasri & Fabregas had great games

4. We ran citeh to death in the 2nd 1/2

5. David Silva is a fine player who would grace the Emirates

6. Our defence still looks Sleepy!!

 

[DanDare]

After watching the game a for a 2nd time, here are a few things that stood out for me:

1. Arshavin had a stinker and he is a lazy c... (Surely Rosicky must start now)

Arshavin is our second most productive player after Nasri...

 

[mo50]

That's the frustrating thing. He has the ability to score/assist out of nothing, so including him in the team is a necessity, but some of his half arsed passes to the Man City players is unacceptable for a professional, and undoes all the hard work the team puts in.

To be fair to him, he did start tracking back as the game wore on, but he has to be more aware and focused, and stop looking/acting so lazy.

Mind you, I wouldn't drop him.

 

[Gunner_JT]

I also have never seen Djourou so naive defensively before, he seems to have really stagnated in his reading of the game.

There was also that instance when he tried to tackle a player Squillaci had covered but he left massive space for Tevez to shoot only for Clichy to intervene. I do rate him but he can do much better than this.

 

[AnthonyG]

There was also that instance when he tried to tackle a player Squillaci had covered but he left massive space for Tevez to shoot only for Clichy to intervene. I do rate him but he can do much better than this.

I noticed that. There were a couple of occasions when he was stepping on Squid's toes. Still think Djourou can be a solid player for us though.

 

[Big Poppa]

Whilst appreciating that Clichy has made his fair share of ****-ups in recent years, his lone battle to stem the flow down our left early on yesterday does not get the understanding from many of our fans. I love AA but his defensive defeciency is excruciating at times. He did track back once yesterday and snuff out a Tevez move. I feel that due to Clichy's lack of cover from Arshavin, his ratings have not been refelctive of how well he has actually played.

Do you ever see Clichy berating Arshavin to get back though? Clichy's first job is to defend his position, and if he can see that his team-mates are already pushed so far up the pitch, why does he decide to bomb ahead of them like Roberto Carlos, leaving ouur CBs so exposed? Something has to give and if Arshavin's on the pitch but not pulling his weight defensively, someone needs to use some intelligence and either be a bit more conservative, or drag his sizeable ass back to defend.