The tactics thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by say yes, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. yousif_arsenal

    yousif_arsenal King of Twitter Rumours Moderator

    The team still highly unbalanced you can see they don't do play all pepe laca auba Özil together because it'll waste Auba ability. So the solution is to sell Özil and one of auba or laca and get another winger and younger attacking mid.

    The midfield is another mess we have good players and good youth players but you can't have midfield that so indiscipline how many times team make one pass from deep to open us up? What Torreira Xhaka Guendouzi Willock do without the ball? They stand watching they don't track runners their positioning is awful that's mean they not following the gameplan and don't care protecting the back line.

    The defense is another mess i don't know if it's the system or the Sokratis Luiz Holding Chambers Mustafi are just crap defenders i mean even bottom 10 defense won't allow teams to have 20 shots every game
     
    bingobob likes this.
  2. Manberg

    Manberg Predator

    But is it not similar to what Emery was trying to do? Play very defensive to slowly improve the defence? We don't like it as fans we were saying we should stick to what we're good at, attacking football.
     
  3. ScotsGooner89

    ScotsGooner89 Active Member

    —————Leno——————

    Hector——2x CBs——tierney

    ————Luiz/torreira———-

    —-—xhaka——-dani.c———

    Pepe—————————martinelli

    —————-auba————————

    I’m an advocate for playing players in their actual position. That then makes it strange I’m suggesting Luiz for DM but we seem adamant on using him as part of our playing out from the back which I can understand. If he doesn’t work then just play torreira there with the instructions of not to dither on the ball at all and immediately give it to the two passers in midfield.

    Can’t stand seeing Auba on the wing, especially the right wing like vs Brighton. Pepe brought a good dynamic with bellerin on the right side. Auba could switch with martinelli periodically giving tierney a good target for his crosses as gabi has definitely proven to be quite dominant in the air.

    Just my 2 cents aftervwhat we’ve seen the past few matches, the youngsters to be put in when needed or if any of the experienced heads don’t perform. Laca to play if Auba is out of form or if chasing a goal or game demands hold up play.
     
  4. bingobob

    bingobob Fan of Technicians Who Show Great Character

    Emery may have tried it but it made us more porous. We were regularly allowing 10 plus shots sometimes 20 plus shots on goal.

    But it should be the starting point for any new manager. We need a solid foundation to build the attack. And weve been so accustomed to fire fighting defenders we fail to appreciate what actually is good defending. We need to appreciate the defensive art a bit more.
     
  5. say yes

    say yes To Sweet Soulful House Music

    All while handing Özil, another player who can only play through the middle, a ridiculous contract.

    Shocking resource-management from Gazidis.
     
    bingobob likes this.
  6. Rex Banter

    Rex Banter Knows a guy who knows an ITK at Bristol Trusted

    The man is the baldest of frauds. Every decision that wanker made was the wrong one.

    Couldn’t even get rid of Sanchez without taking on Mkhitaryan’s albatross of a contract.
     
  7. GoonerJay24

    GoonerJay24 Active Member

    We need to get the balance right between the defence and midfield, which is essential for good sides.
    However, confidence seems to be a real issue at the moment; I don't think channels like AFTV help this neither

    Anyway, in terms of formations would like us to try something new in the big games coming up as whatever we've opted for up till now just hasn't worked.

    4141
    Leno
    Chambers Holding Sokratis Tierney
    Torreria
    Pepe Xhaka Ceballos Willock
    Aubamayang/Lacazette

    3421
    Leno
    Chambers Holding Sokratis
    AMN Xhaka Gueundouzi Kola/Tierney
    Özil Pepe
    Lacazette

    I know Willock has been poor lately, but it's only through playing consistently that he'll learn from these mistakes. Definitely has to improve decision making moving forwards.

    Aubamayang for me offers very little in certain matches; it was not wise making him captain. Some games Lacazette and possibly Martinelli would be better upfront.
     
    #254 likes this.
  8. CaseUteinberger

    CaseUteinberger Cazorla (not Carzola ffs)

    After looking at my recording of the West Ham game, reading and listening to podcasts it is clear to me will still have miles to go. Yes, it was a win, but that is about all that was positive. The first 60 minutes were dreadful and all the issues we have discussed earlier were present. Again we are so spread out. There is no connection between attack and defense not between CBs and midfielders in the buildup. Yesterday to me the main problems are Xhaka and Özil and how they position themselves and how they play. Both seem to have embraced the quick backwards pass as the go to option. That and hiding behind opposition players.

    The distance each of our passes need to travel if we pass forward is just ridiculous due to how far up midfield is to the backline. We really need to become more compact and move the whole team better up and down the pitch. Not sure why this isn’t drilled into the team. Might be a leftover from the Wenger era that we like to create space by spreading out the team, but other teams just block all passing lanes when we are slow in moving ball and players around. This setup also relies on superior players and superior movement, neither of which we have.
     
    hydrofluoric acid likes this.
  9. HBL

    HBL Well-Known Member

    433/4321 from next season please
     
  10. ChefMan21

    ChefMan21 Well-Known Member

    Offensively I think the DM position (or a CM that drops deep) is really lacking. We try to play out from the back, but there's no midfielder that's quick between the ears to link the defence with the attack. A deep lying playmaker would help at DM, but since our CB depth is so poor, it's really got to be someone who can both defend and attack. If not, then you almost have to play two DMs side by side - an offensive playmaker and defensive, errr.... monster - or have a central midfielder who can run their little legs off all game tackling whatever moves.
     
    GoonerJay24 likes this.
  11. zilfy

    zilfy Well-Known Member

    Apologies for being totally off-topic but I wonder what this team would be like I the year 2025:

    Saka Martinelli Nelson
    Smith-Rowe
    Guendouzi Willock
    Tierney Saliba new Cb Bellerin
    New GK

    The fact they're all so young and yet have plenty of PL experience already makes me think this club has a much brighter future than people on here make out. All this talk of playing in the championship and the club being soomed etc strikes me as being a little short-sighted. I know they're not all guaranteed to make it but surely a large number of them will
     
    MutableEarth likes this.
  12. zilfy

    zilfy Well-Known Member

    *doomed*
     
  13. Bergkamp1988

    Bergkamp1988 Well-Known Member

    Just realized our defence is not that bad. Bar Liverpool and Leicester (10 to 15 goals conceded), we're on the same level as the likes of City, Chelsea, United etc. (All conceded between 20 - 24 goals)

    We are not scoring enough goals even though we have great attacking players.

    The number one issue is the midfield. It is not feeding the Strikers, not keeping possession and not protecting our defenders. The problem obviously doesn't just stem from the players but the way the team is being shaped by our coach.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  14. Tir Na Nog

    Tir Na Nog In Big Trouble If He Speaks

    The positioning of our players in both the build up and when we lose the ball is so much of our issues. Players constantly in the wrong position (ahem Guendouzi), in general though there's serious structural issues. We have to have a way of attacking where if we lose the ball it doesn't automatically mean the opposition can play a couple of passes and just go straight through us to get a chance on goal.

    City at their best, maybe not this season, had a way of setting up when attacking so that they'd also be in a good shape to prevent counter-attacking situations. We don't have that, it seems like when we attack players like Guendouzi, Xhaka, our FB's don't really anticipate the possibility of us losing the ball in the attack, not saying it's necessarily any of their faults either it's probably deeper than that.

    It's the same when we play out from the back, at times it's actually looked better under Freddie but there's still issues a lot of the time where we panic a bit because the passing options of the player in possession are quite limited. It's so easy to blame the guy who passes the ball to an opposition player but so often it's because their options aren't great but try anyways as that's what they've been instructed to do.
     
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  15. chessygoal

    chessygoal Well-Known Member

    With Arteta coming, I'm wondering what kind of team he's going to play. And it might be fun to re-read our posts at the end of this season to see how far-off we were.
    Assuming Arteta draws inspiration from City / Wengerball / Bielsa (via Pochettino),i'd go for that team :
    ------------Leno-----------------
    Bellerin-Luiz-Sokratis-Tierney
    ------------Xhaka----------------
    ------Toreirra------Özil---------
    Pepe------Laca---Aubameyang

    Defence :
    High-line with fullbacks going forward 1 at a time. a lot of 1v1 to expect for our CBs.
    RB : I can See Bellerin as n°1 and Chambers as n°2
    LB : Tierney as n°1 and Kolasinac as n°2. Kolasinac's positioning is erratic, I don't think he'll cut it with Arteta.
    CBs : Short-term I think Arteta will go with an experienced pairing : Luiz/Sokratis. Unless Luiz can't play a high-line, in that case, I'd guess Holding would be Arteta's choice, a more disciplined CB with a good reading of the game.

    Midfield :
    Back to 433, with a specialised DM and 2 box to box CMs.

    DM : A lot of similarities between Arteta as a player and Xhaka. Both are very good technically, with a good reading of the game, but lacking physical attributes that make great DMs. If Xhaka is up for it, I can see Arteta making him our anchor in midfield, and his relay on the pitch.

    CMs : Torreira will play, I'm sure of that, he's everything Arteta is supposed to want in a player : commitment, good positioning, technical ability, pressing. But I think Arteta is going to surprise everyone and play Özil as a CM too, I have nothing to back that up, but it seems to be the most obvious thing to do if we want to play an entertaining brand of football. I would have gone for Ceballos if he was fit, but I don't think Willock/ESR are ready yet to bring the creativity we need in midfield.

    Forwards
    I have no doubts that Arteta is going to play our best front 3. Pepe's work-rate might be an issue, and we could see Saka promoted in that case.

    CF : Lacazette will be perfect if we want to press high and play as a traditional CF. Martinelli will be a perfect n°2.
    LF : Pepe as a winger, if he can do the required defensive job, otherwise I can see Arteta going for Saka as a RF and Auba as a LF.
    RF : Auba, playing like Pedro/Sterling; A winger making a lot of diagonal runs.

    Transfer targets in january :
    CB
    : we need at least one experienced CB good in 1v1 and fast. Someone like Bailly would be perfect.
    CM : we lack a classic 8, like Rakitic / Modric / Saul Niguez, especially if the Özil as a CM experiment fails.

    Curious to see what your guess are!
     
  16. CaseUteinberger

    CaseUteinberger Cazorla (not Carzola ffs)

    I think our way of playing makes good defenders look like average defenders, average defenders look poor and poor ones atrocious. Same goes for our defensive midfielders. The space they have to cover is just too large. Last game against City you could see how Torreira couldn't tell what to do often as the distance he would have to cover was just too large. He tried to get close, but the starting distance was just too much.

    I don't want to overly defend Torreira and Guendouzi, nor any of our CBs, but they have a very difficult task given our setup, that much better players would struggle with. As long as we do not play more compact and reduce distances we cannot hope for better both in defence, attack or build-up.
     
    Bergkamp1988 likes this.
  17. scytheavatar

    scytheavatar Well-Known Member

    Why "surely a large number of them will" make it? Fans are setting themselves up to be disappointed if they have unreasonable expectations of our youngsters, especially when our current batch of youngster is a pale shadow of what we had many years ago. A good balance team needs a mix of young blood with experienced hands, so by 2025 we are going to need fresh blood or we will be in trouble.
     
  18. jolieber

    jolieber New Member

    Xhaka and Özil needs to do a Jimmy Hoffa.

    We should play this way imo., when all players are fit:
    ----------------------Leno------------------------
    Bellerin-----Sokratis----Holding-----Tierney
    ---------------------Torreira---------------------
    -----------Guendouzi----Willock--------------
    -----Pepe------Lacazette/Auba---Martinelli/Saka

    Play the younglings, play them instead of Özil, Xhaka, Mustafi, Luiz and even Ceballos. The players I mentioned have been leaving a lot to be desired in regards to their performance on the pitch, some for a long time. Also, play Auba as a main striker. Auba isn't a winger and both Saka and Martinelli deserves to be given a shot to fight for the left wing. Willock shows signs of potentially becoming a world class box to box midfielder, and should be given a chance ahead of Xhaka imo. Willock, Martinelli, Saka, Holding and Nelson are some of the youth players that show extreme promise, and this is the perfect moment for them to show it for the world and Premier League, that they are ready for the big time, and that they can compete with the first team players. The first team has failed, time to push reset button and renew from inside.

    And play Torreira as a lone defensive midfielder.
     
  19. Mrs Bergkamp

    Mrs Bergkamp Well-Known Member

    Emery changed his mind every match so nothing was worked on. As fans, we wouldn't have minded seeing defensive solidity but that was never on the table. Under his tenure, we signed Luiz and Sok and Kos and Monreal fled. He was a clueless and weak manager who made us worse.
     
    Divided_Pie likes this.
  20. Underhill

    Underhill Well-Known Member

    I like this, but would probably try Ceballos over Willock. I don't feel he had much of an opportunity yet, and with a young spanish coach, we might get a lot out of him.
     

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