Emi Buendia

[SA Gunner]

Edouard and Daka, while being talented and full of potential, are still prospects playing in lesser league. We need a more ready striker.

The others would be a dream, although I’d sacrifice one of them for a RCB

Help me out mate, RCB?

 

[truth_hurts]

Nathan Redmond is good enough for Arsenal. If Arsenal had bought him from Norwich when his price was lower, he would likely have been a very solid signing for the price who would probably have improved and added to his value for resale. Now he is a mainstay at Southampton, who are above Arsenal. He was was awarded both Fans' and Players' Player of the year at the end of season awards in 2019. Players like Redmond and Ward-Prowse sign new contracts without being tapped up by the likes of Arsenal, then their value to Southampton is so high, they become too expensive and too old for sell-on opportunities, and the opportunity to get them at a good value is missed.

Arsenal would be better off having signed a player like Redmond than spunking £70 million on Pepe to not perform and depreciate in value. Or many millions on Özil, Mkhitaryan or Willian's exorbitant pension wages. A player like Redmond would likely have played for the Arsenal shirt AND maintained or increased his resale value.

In recent years, the teams that have pushed themselves up towards top 4 either have enormous wealth funding different business models to Arsenal (Man United, Chelsea, Everton) or they have built their squads on fundamentals of hard working players, many of which are domestic league signings (Liverpool, Spuds, Leicester).

Liverpool - Clyne, Lovren, Gomez, Mane, Robertson, Milner, Lallana, Henderson, Ings, Charlie Adam, Wijnaldum, Joe Allen, Sterling

Spuds - Walker, Rose, Davies, Alderweireld, Trippier, Wanyama, Mousa Dembélé, Dele Alli, Sissoko, Højbjerg, Doherty, Rodon

Leicester - Schmeichel, Ulloa, Huth, Morgan, Maguire, Evans, Vardy, Drinkwater, Albrighton, Gray, Simpson, Matty James, Iheanacho, Maddison, Justin, Slimani, Perez

Many of these signings, for example Mane, Milner and Henderson, were widely derided on this forum when Liverpool signed them, for not being good enough for Arsenal at the time. People need to stop demanding exclusively marquee signings and hidden gems from abroad. Not every player has to have a silky touch and do flashy tricks or have unreal athletic abilities.

Supporters need to stop pretending to themselves that Arsenal are better than they actually are, and to stop pretending that players who don't have ceilings as high as Bergkamp, Vieira or Henry aren't good enough...

Somebody has pissed in your cornflakes this morning.

Redmond is/was a decent player. He would not have transformed us though and isn't the answer now. I'm not ****ting on Redmond, just suggesting stats only tell you a part of the story. Traore and St. Maximan top the take on table, but neither would probably contribute more in terms of goals and assists as even Pepe.



When did I mention marquee players? I've been strongly advocating for us to bring in Bissouma and Lamptey you wa** stain.

You've missed a vital ingredient with Sp**s, Leicester and Liverpool - brilliant managers who know how to motivate and get the best out of their players.

 

[Sebastes]

Help me out mate, RCB?

Right cb

 

[silent_shadow]

I haven't watched him regularly so can't give a personal opinion, but he seems highly rated and has wonderful stats.
Think there's a lot of underrated talent in mid-to-lower table clubs in the English leagues which people are scared to go for for some reason. Often there's a tendency to go for the more exotic option, but we got Koscielny from 2nd division in France and Martinelli from Brazil 4th division. Someone like this would be itching to get into this club and prove himself, unlike a Willian for instance.

 

[Impact]

When Brendan Rodgers arrived at Liverpool, he told Jordan Henderson he could leave to go to Fulham, to fund a move for Clint Demspey going the other way... during the last three seasons he's captained an unbelieveable team to the CL and PL....

There is every reason to put in place a longer term strategy to sign players who can improve at Arsenal, rather than investing large amounts in proven top players...

Signing Pepe for £70 million after one good season in France is not a wise strategy to attempt to sign player to improve and add value to Arsenal's squad... Arsenal tried to sign Zaha before he went to Man United - THAT might have been a great signing if it had worked out...

On the other hand, Gabriel Martinelli, Tierney, Gabriel, look like solid signings. To sign the next Grealish or Sterling, a decent volume of less expensive signings must be made (some will work, many won't)... Especially because so many of the current Arsenal squad have been at the club long enough and should be moved on to other clubs...

Brendan Rodgers initially thought Dempsey would suit his style better than Henderson. So what? Notwithstanding his evident improvement, Henderson would absolutely not be considered in the regard he is playing in a different style/role to the one at L’pool under Klopp. So this is a moot point to me. He’s a good player but not some underrated world beater. Pretty sure no one wants him starting for England and it’s not like we have an overflow of talent there.

Grealish turned 25 in September. Signing him would be part of a long term strategy. I fail to understand this insistence on finding the next him when we are far from seeing his peak. Grealish and Pépé are apples and pears. Grealish plays in the PL. He has a track record in this league, in the Championship and even against us. Pépé had one good season that commentators were still skeptical about. He was a known high potential overvalued project and we were the only club willing to take the bait. It hasn’t worked out as planned so far.

 

[Balboa]

Brendan Rodgers initially thought Dempsey would suit his style better than Henderson. So what? Notwithstanding his evident improvement, Henderson would absolutely not be considered in the regard he is playing in a different style/role to the one at L’pool under Klopp. So this is a moot point to me. He’s a good player but not some underrated world beater. Pretty sure no one wants him starting for England and it’s not like we have an overflow of talent there.

Grealish turned 25 in September. Signing him would be part of a long term strategy. I fail to understand this insistence on finding the next him when we are far from seeing his peak. Grealish and Pépé are apples and pears. Grealish plays in the PL. He has a track record in this league, in the Championship and even against us. Pépé had one good season that commentators were still skeptical about. He was a known high potential overvalued project and we were the only club willing to take the bait. It hasn’t worked out as planned so far.

"Henderson would absolutely not be considered in the regard he is playing in a different style/role to the one at L’pool under Klopp."

WTF?

Henderson just captained Liverpool to CL and PL wins, having taken them from outside the top 4 and CL, and you're still downplaying him? Really? I mean, we've been hearing Henderson derided for 8 years now, I suppose I should be used to it. What is Arsenal's objective if not to improve their league position and challenge for those trophies that he just captained his side to, as a mainstay in their team? If Klopp is such a great manager, with a great system, do you think there might be a reason he kept Henderson as captain?!!!

The point being, a squad was built on the likes of Henderson, not on the likes of Dempsey, and it was a close thing that Liverpool could have continued to invest in the likes of Dempsey. At 22, Henderson improved and added to his value, Dempsey didn't. At 25 and £80 million + it might be hard for Grealish to add to his value, and Arsenal aren't close to top 4 at present...expending that amount on one player is too big a risk...

What's the point of signing a VVD/Allison/Fabinho OR a Grealish, if they don't have a squad of Hendersons, Milners, Wijnaldums and the like?

Unless Arteta leaves, I think that Guendouzi, Torreira and Özil will leave by next summer. Even if Arteta leaves, I don't think that the three are good enough to help Arsenal improve. Ceballos, Xhaka and Elneny should all be moved on or have their minutes replaced asap too in my view.

That leaves Arsenal needing to sign at least 2 midifelders by next summer, if not 3 in my view. I also believe that Arsenal need to move some of their strikers on and sign a new centre forward. They also need to sign a right-sided centre back who can improve on Holding, unless it turns out that Mavropanos is good enough for that position.

The fundamental reason I don't think that Arsenal should sign Jack Grealish is because he is going to be far too expensive. He would cost £80 million minimum, probably closer to £100 million. I don't see the point of spending large amounts on any one player when it hamstrings the budget for the rebuild.

Even if Pepe had become a solid first choice performer contributing more than he does now, the price paid was too much for one player and left the issues in midfield and CF insufficiently addressed, which is contributing to the lack of goals.

 

[Impact]

"Henderson would absolutely not be considered in the regard he is playing in a different style/role to the one at L’pool under Klopp."

WTF?

Henderson just captained Liverpool to CL and PL wins and you're still downplaying him? Really? I mean, we've been hearing Henderson derided for 8 years now, I suppose I should be used to it. What is Arsenal's objective if not to challenge for those trophies that he just captained his side to, as a mainstay in their team? If Klopp is such a great manager, with a great system, do you think there might be a reason he kept Henderson and made him captain?!!!

The point being, a squad was built on the likes of Henderson, not on the likes of Dempsey, and it was a close thing that Liverpool could have continued to invest in the likes of Dempsey. At 22, Henderson improved and added to his value, Dempsey didn't. At 25 and £80 million + it might be hard for Grealish to add to his value, and Arsenal aren't close to top 4 at present...expending that amount on one player is too big a risk...

What's the point of signing a VVD/Allison/Fabinho OR a Grealish, if they don't have a squad of Hendersons, Milners, Wijnaldums and the like?

Unless Arteta leaves, I think that Guendouzi, Torreira and Özil will leave by next summer. Even if Arteta leaves, I don't think that the three are good enough to help Arsenal improve. Ceballos, Xhaka and Elneny should all be moved on or have their minutes replaced asap too in my view.

That leaves Arsenal needing to sign at least 2 midifelders by next summer, if not 3 in my view. I also believe that Arsenal need to move some of their strikers on and sign a new centre forward. They also need to sign a right-sided centre back who can improve on Holding, unless it turns out that Mavropanos is good enough for that position.

The fundamental reason I don't think that Arsenal should sign Jack Grealish is because he is going to be far too expensive. He would cost £80 million minimum, probably closer to £100 million. I don't see the point of spending large amounts on any one player when it hamstrings the budget for the rebuild.

Even if Pepe had become a solid first choice performer contributing more than he does now, the price paid was too much for one player and left the issues in midfield and CF insufficiently addressed, which is contributing to the lack of goals.

No one underrated Henderson. He is clearly a top level PL midfielder. I simply made it clear that while Henderson has come good, he also looks better because he suits Klopp's desired system. Note the point. He suits Klopp's system not that the system was built around him. That may not have been the case if Rodgers had the opportunity to continue building his L'pool side. I used the England example to also highlight that he hasn't suddenly become a world leading midfielder though good he is.

It's also not an either or situation. I'm not against smart value signings like Tierney, Martinelli, Gabriel et al. If they are good enough, the fee matters little.

The point to use your example is that Liverpool did both.

They bought Alison, Van Dijk, Fabinho for huge fees. Don't forget that though they are squad players (Keita, Chamberlain et al cost a pretty penny). As well as finding value in the market with Robertson, Wijnaldum, Milner, Gomez, Mané, Firmino and Salah to some extent (although the latter three were all considered pricey at the time for where L'pool were).

We move on Lacazette (£20m), Nketiah (£20m), Guendouzi (£20m), Torreira (£20) and Chambers (£10m) this summer and that's basically Grealish's fee.

Spend our actual summer budget (let's say £100m) on bringing in a back-up GK and LB (£10m), RCB (£25m) and two midfielders (£65m). That's certainly doable.

 

[Balboa]

No one underrated Henderson. He is clearly a top level PL midfielder. I simply made it clear that while Henderson has come good, he also looks better because he suits Klopp's desired system. Note the point. He suits Klopp's system not that the system was built around him. That may not have been the case if Rodgers had the opportunity to continue building his L'pool side. I used the England example to also highlight that he hasn't suddenly become a world leading midfielder though good he is.

It's also not an either or situation. I'm not against smart value signings like Tierney, Martinelli, Gabriel et al. If they are good enough, the fee matters little.

The point to use your example is that Liverpool did both.

They bought Alison, Van Dijk, Fabinho for huge fees. Don't forget that though they are squad players (Keita, Chamberlain et al cost a pretty penny). As well as finding value in the market with Robertson, Wijnaldum, Milner, Gomez, Mané, Firmino and Salah to some extent (although the latter three were all considered pricey at the time for where L'pool were).

We move on Lacazette (£20m), Nketiah (£20m), Guendouzi (£20m), Torreira (£20) and Chambers (£10m) this summer and that's basically Grealish's fee.

Spend our actual summer budget (let's say £100m) on bringing in a back-up GK and LB (£10m), RCB (£25m) and two midfielders (£65m). That's certainly doable.

I'm afraid I don't agree.

"Note the point. He suits Klopp's system not that the system was built around him."

The Liverpool side was built around Henderson. We all saw it happen with our own eyes. It's just a fact. That's not to say that no other player could do that role, but it's a fact that it was built around specifically Jordan Henderson, while many other players were moved on from Liverpool. He was there before Klopp, and he remained there as a first team player and captain. He was written off over and over again, not just by Rodgers. I remember when people basically said Fabinho would bench Henderson.

In my view, a Grealish signing in terms of career stage and price would be closer to a Allison, VVD or Fabinho.

What did Liverpool do before those players were signed? As you point out, they signed less expensive players, such as Mane, Milner, Firmino, Ings, Wijnaldum, Salah etc.

What they also did, which you missed out, was that they improved as a squad and qualified for the CL. Then they got so good that they were already competing well in the CL. After that, they signed VVD half way through the season when they would go on to lose the CL final. After that, they signed Allison and Fabinho and won the CL and PL...

Arsenal are not in the CL or close. In my opinion they need to be focussed on trying to sign the equivalent of Henderson, Clyne, Ings, Mane, Milner, Wijnaldum. In there, you might if you're lucky, sign "the next Grealish" AKA "the next Salah/Coutinho/Sterling/Suarez/Mane/Robertson/Son-Heung Min/Richarlison"

Yes, Salah, Mane and Firmino cost decent fees for the time, but the inflation of transfers does not yet equate those transfers to £100 million or even £80 million for Grealish.

The point is, those fees spent by Liverpool built up over time. They barely ever went over £40 million until they had started to qualify and compete for the CL...

I'm afraid I think that you are trying to get Arsenal up to the top with one big heave. Even if Grealish squeaked Arsenal into the CL by some miracle, he wouldn't have enough of a developed squad around him for them to do anything once they got there in my view...

 

[truth_hurts]

"Henderson would absolutely not be considered in the regard he is playing in a different style/role to the one at L’pool under Klopp."

WTF?

Henderson just captained Liverpool to CL and PL wins, having taken them from outside the top 4 and CL, and you're still downplaying him? Really? I mean, we've been hearing Henderson derided for 8 years now, I suppose I should be used to it. What is Arsenal's objective if not to improve their league position and challenge for those trophies that he just captained his side to, as a mainstay in their team? If Klopp is such a great manager, with a great system, do you think there might be a reason he kept Henderson as captain?!!!

The point being, a squad was built on the likes of Henderson, not on the likes of Dempsey, and it was a close thing that Liverpool could have continued to invest in the likes of Dempsey. At 22, Henderson improved and added to his value, Dempsey didn't. At 25 and £80 million + it might be hard for Grealish to add to his value, and Arsenal aren't close to top 4 at present...expending that amount on one player is too big a risk...

What's the point of signing a VVD/Allison/Fabinho OR a Grealish, if they don't have a squad of Hendersons, Milners, Wijnaldums and the like?

Unless Arteta leaves, I think that Guendouzi, Torreira and Özil will leave by next summer. Even if Arteta leaves, I don't think that the three are good enough to help Arsenal improve. Ceballos, Xhaka and Elneny should all be moved on or have their minutes replaced asap too in my view.

That leaves Arsenal needing to sign at least 2 midifelders by next summer, if not 3 in my view. I also believe that Arsenal need to move some of their strikers on and sign a new centre forward. They also need to sign a right-sided centre back who can improve on Holding, unless it turns out that Mavropanos is good enough for that position.

The fundamental reason I don't think that Arsenal should sign Jack Grealish is because he is going to be far too expensive. He would cost £80 million minimum, probably closer to £100 million. I don't see the point of spending large amounts on any one player when it hamstrings the budget for the rebuild.

Even if Pepe had become a solid first choice performer contributing more than he does now, the price paid was too much for one player and left the issues in midfield and CF insufficiently addressed, which is contributing to the lack of goals.

Flawed logic in your rationale for not signing a Jack Grealish. It would be akin to saying that we didn't need to spend 45m on Partey.

Our biggest flaws are a top cb and a top creator now that Mesut has gone into retirement.

Grealish would transform our attack and would be worth the outlay. He isn't a question mark like Pepe was, he's an absolute.

 

[truth_hurts]

I agree with you on Henderson by the way, but an equivalent would be keeping El Nenny here and hoping that he becomes a leader. Henderson has succeded in a way that very few saw coming.

Klopp didn't always play him initially though.

 

[GLITCH]

Since Eriksen seems to be going elsewhere, Buendia's the only other person who meets the criteria. Don't see Norwich agreeing to a loan with obligation.

 

[truth_hurts]

Since Eriksen seems to be going elsewhere, Buendia's the only other person who meets the criteria. Don't see Norwich agreeing to a loan with obligation.

Different profile, but maybe sending a Nelson or Willock on loan could sweeten the deal.

 

[Balboa]

Flawed logic in your rationale for not signing a Jack Grealish. It would be akin to saying that we didn't need to spend 45m on Partey.

Our biggest flaws are a top cb and a top creator now that Mesut has gone into retirement.

Grealish would transform our attack and would be worth the outlay. He isn't a question mark like Pepe was, he's an absolute.

Partey is a quality player, but at his age and price, I'm not sure it's a great signing for Arsenal. Talking as if his signing can't be questioned is a bit premature considering what has happened at Arsenal since he arrived. If he gets Arsenal into the CL next season, it will be worth it, but who's betting on that? There are a solid 6 clubs with better squads than Arsenal (Liverpool, City, Spuds, Chelsea, Utd, Leicester) and another 5 or 6 clubs performing better and threatening (Everton, Wolves, Leeds, Villa, Southampton, West Ham). The CL is a long hard fight away...

This just speaks to the perspective Arsenal fans place on good players and marquee signings. Having seen players like Özil/Willian/Pepe not perform at huge price tags, the Partey deal can't be questioned in their eyes because he isn't a non-performer...

Grealish would be massive but he's heading for a CL team and his price would hamstring the rebuild. The foundations for success would not have a chance to be made with enough lower price signings of mostly 20-24 year old players.

 

[GLITCH]

Different profile, but maybe sending a Nelson or Willock on loan could sweeten the deal.

Maybe, but don't see them agreeing to that either.

 

[Balboa]

I agree with you on Henderson by the way, but an equivalent would be keeping El Nenny here and hoping that he becomes a leader. Henderson has succeded in a way that very few saw coming.

Klopp didn't always play him initially though.

I'm sorry. I think an equivalent would be Elnenny lifting the CL or PL as captain? I just can't see it!

Henderson was considered a big prospect. Man Utd looked at him but Ferguson didn't like his running style. Liverpool paid a substantial fee for a player of his age at the time. He was written off countless times. His mentality is a huge part of why he survived and became captain and of why Liverpool are so great. Arsenal's equivalent is Xhaka, I'm not sure he takes on criticism in the same way with a similar attitude.

I'm afraid that the Pyramid Pirlo just does not compare.

 

[truth_hurts]

I'm sorry. I think an equivalent would be Elnenny lifting the CL or PL as captain? I just can't see it!

Henderson was considered a big prospect. Man Utd looked at him but Ferguson didn't like his running style. Liverpool paid a substantial fee for a player of his age at the time. He was written off countless times. His mentality is a huge part of why he survived and became captain and of why Liverpool are so great. Arsenal's equivalent is Xhaka, I'm not sure he takes on criticism in the same way with a similar attitude.

I'm afraid that the Pyramid Pirlo just does not compare.

You're right actually. Xhaka is a more apt comparison.

 

[Impact]

I'm afraid I don't agree.

"Note the point. He suits Klopp's system not that the system was built around him."

The Liverpool side was built around Henderson. We all saw it happen with our own eyes. It's just a fact. That's not to say that no other player could do that role, but it's a fact that it was built around specifically Jordan Henderson, while many other players were moved on from Liverpool. He was there before Klopp, and he remained there as a first team player and captain. He was written off over and over again, not just by Rodgers. I remember when people basically said Fabinho would bench Henderson.

In my view, a Grealish signing in terms of career stage and price would be closer to a Allison, VVD or Fabinho.

What did Liverpool do before those players were signed? As you point out, they signed less expensive players, such as Mane, Milner, Firmino, Ings, Wijnaldum, Salah etc.

What they also did, which you missed out, was that they improved as a squad and qualified for the CL. Then they got so good that they were already competing well in the CL. After that, they signed VVD half way through the season when they would go on to lose the CL final. After that, they signed Allison and Fabinho and won the CL and PL...

Arsenal are not in the CL or close. In my opinion they need to be focussed on trying to sign the equivalent of Henderson, Clyne, Ings, Mane, Milner, Wijnaldum. In there, you might if you're lucky, sign "the next Grealish" AKA "the next Salah/Coutinho/Sterling/Suarez/Mane/Robertson/Son-Heung Min/Richarlison"

Yes, Salah, Mane and Firmino cost decent fees for the time, but the inflation of transfers does not yet equate those transfers to £100 million or even £80 million for Grealish.

The point is, those fees spent by Liverpool built up over time. They barely ever went over £40 million until they had started to qualify and compete for the CL...

I'm afraid I think that you are trying to get Arsenal up to the top with one big heave. Even if Grealish squeaked Arsenal into the CL by some miracle, he wouldn't have enough of a developed squad around him for them to do anything once they got there in my view...

Your point about Henderson is just untrue. Klopp's system has always been about gegenpressing which suits Henderson's strengths but the team has been clearly built around L'pool's exceptional wide forwards and attacking full-backs. The midfield three until this season played a role to add defensive balance and intensity. That's where Henderson comes in. He has clearly improved but there is a difference between being a key player in a team and the team being built around you. Btw Fabinho was never going to bench Henderson because they play different roles. I'll stop discussing Henderson here because it is very incidental to the main point.

The role of Champions League funding is obvious but it's why I mapped out a route to paying a Grealish fee without requiring it. L'pool's squad rebuild owed in large part to their ability to sell players for inflated fees although Champions League funding would have played a part. We can recreate the former. Alisson and Fabinho were playing for teams qualified for CL football so there was a clearer case for why CL football might be needed to attract them. There is no guarantee Villa will even be playing European football next season in spite of how well they've started. So it's not the same with Grealish. Van Dijk was a silver bullet but not many people saw £75 million as a value signing when they made it but he has more than repaid that. Had L'pool waited another summer, they would have faced a lot more competition. Both of those points apply to Grealish imo.

What's clear is Grealish has the playing profile and is at the right age to make a disproportionate impact on the Arsenal team over the next 5+ years and next summer will be our best chance to sign him. No one will talk about his price if he shows a similar level of quality to what he has done at Villa over the last season and a half. Every big signing is a risk but this one comes with enough evidence to pass any due diligence exercise. I'm not saying that we need to make Grealish-esque signings in terms of fee and player reputation everywhere but you should take good chances when they come in the market. This is one.

I also think people overestimate how far away we are far from being a Champions League chasing team. One summer of good work and we are right back in there. That's maybe 3-4 players of a similar quality to last summer's main additions: Partey and Gabriel. Villa and Everton are examples of that this year.

EDIT: Özil, Willian and Pépé are not useful examples. Had we signed a competent striker or even alternative to Giroud at some stage, Özil (and Alexis) would likely have led us to a PL title and imagine how different are fortunes would be post that. Don't allow present day troubles with Mesut negate that reality. Fans were fuming at us signing Willian because many thought he was a has-been looking for a pay day, I don't see how you can compare us signing him on a free with a signing like Grealish. I've made the point about Pépé - we were clearly fleeced price-wise but all of Europe knew that which is why no one else made a serious bid.

 

[Balboa]

Your point about Henderson is just untrue. Klopp's system has always been about gegenpressing which suits Henderson's strengths but the team has been clearly built around L'pool's exceptional wide forwards and attacking full-backs. The midfield three until this season played a role to add defensive balance and intensity. That's where Henderson comes in. He has clearly improved but there is a difference between being a key player in a team and the team being built around you. Btw Fabinho was never going to bench Henderson because they play different roles. I'll stop discussing Henderson here because it is very incidental to the main point.

The role of Champions League funding is obvious but it's why I mapped out a route to paying a Grealish fee without requiring it. L'pool's squad rebuild owed in large part to their ability to sell players for inflated fees although Champions League funding would have played a part. We can recreate the former. Alisson and Fabinho were playing for teams qualified for CL football so there was a clearer case for why CL football might be needed to attract them. There is no guarantee Villa will even be playing European football next season in spite of how well they've started. So it's not the same with Grealish. Van Dijk was a silver bullet but not many people saw £75 million as a value signing when they made it but he has more than repaid that. That's what Grealish can be.

What's clear is Grealish has the playing profile and is at the right age to make a disproportionate impact on the Arsenal team over the next 5+ years and next summer will be our best chance to sign him. No one will talk about his price if he shows a similar level of quality to what he has done at Villa over the last season and a half. Every big signing is a risk but this one comes with enough evidence to pass any due diligence exercise. I'm not saying that we need to make Grealish-esque signings in terms of fee and player reputation everywhere but you should take good chances when they come in the market. This is one.

I also think people overestimate how far away we are far from being a Champions League chasing team. One summer of good work and we are right back in there. That's maybe 3-4 players of a similar quality to last summer's main additions: Partey and Gabriel. Villa and Everton are examples of that this year.

Ok, so Henderson's leadership, defensive balance and intensity was incidental...

In a very literal sense, Henderson was in the middle, having the team built around him...like I said, that's not to imply his skill set is unique, but it was literally Jordan Henderson lifting the biggest trophies at the end of it, and he was there before the wide forwards came and he's still there...and those trophies would not have been won with a lesser player and captain

I don't agree with your numbers. You are talking about Arsenal spending £200 million in one window, £100 million on Grealish and £100 million on others. That's almost what Chelsea made people's eyes water with last summer. I think that you've juiced the fees for Nketiah & Guendouzi.

Your numbers do not include the need Arsenal have, imo, to buy a CF and a wide player relatively soon, because I doubt that Pepe or Willian will contribute much and you've sold Laca and Auba won't be there forever....

You go from arguing that Grealish might not qualify for Europa League football with Villa next season to arguing that Aston Villa successfully bumped their squad to challenge for a CL place???

The problem with the "one big summer" approach is if it doesn't happen, you're back to square one without having built foundations. If it does happen, the lack of foundations can send you back out of the CL fast. To get there, you have to displace at least one of Liverpool, City, Chelsea and Man Utd - these teams have a lot of finance to hit back fast and there are several other teams threatening to get into the CL as well.

For Liverpool to get those sell-ons, they invested in a considerable volume of non marquee level signings, many of which did not give a massive pay off (Charlie Adam, Joe Allen, Minamino etc), many of which did (Suarez, Sterling, Coutinho, Henderson, Robertson, Gomez, Milner, Salah, Firmino, Mane)

 

[Impact]

Ok, so Henderson's leadership, defensive balance and intensity was incidental...

In a very literal sense, Henderson was in the middle, having the team built around him...like I said, that's not to imply his skill set is unique, but it was literally Jordan Henderson lifting the biggest trophies at the end of it, and he was there before the wide forwards came and he's still there...and those trophies would not have been won with a lesser player and captain

I don't agree with your numbers. You are talking about Arsenal spending £200 million in one window, £100 million on Grealish and £100 million on others. That's almost what Chelsea made people's eyes water with last summer. I think that you've juiced the fees for Nketiah & Guendouzi.

Your numbers do not include the need Arsenal have, imo, to buy a CF and a wide player relatively soon, because I doubt that Pepe or Willian will contribute much.

You go from arguing that Grealish might not qualify for Europa League football with Villa next season to arguing that Aston Villa successfully bumped their squad to challenge for a CL place???

The problem with the "one big summer" approach is if it doesn't happen, you're back to square one without having built. For Liverpool to get those sell-ons, they invested in a lot of non marquee level signings, many of which did not give a massive pay off (Charlie Adam, Joe Allen etc), many of which did (Suarez, Sterling, Coutinho, Henderson, Robertson, Gomez, Milner, Salah, Firmino, Mane)

You didn't understand my point. I said discussing Henderson is incidental to the main discussion about whether we should or should not sign Grealish. I've made the point before but I'll repeat it: being a key player in a team ≠ the team being built around you. For example, how critical was Giberto Silva to the Arsenal Invincible team? Probably key enough that most would argue we could not do it without him but no one would argue that we built the team around him.

My numbers did include those points actually. I said two midfielders but was non-descript: that could include a wide player and a central player or two central players depending on where Grealish is stationed. I'm not as convinced we need a new CF if we have the right players in the midfield spots. Aubameyang, Martinelli and hopefully Balogun if he signs can cover those roles. That may be a point of disagreement between us which I can accept but to my mind, there are better options at LW than at CF in the market, Grealish being top of the list.

I put those numbers as upper limits and suspect that we won't do all of that in the summer, which is why my post later spoke of 3/4 quality signings. It was about showing where I see gaps in the squad. The club may see Maitland-Niles as an able option at LB and keep Cédric for another season. We may bring in an experienced cheaper deputy for Leno rather a genuine competitor etc. At RCB, Saliba still remains part of our future so I expect any signing would be a seasoned older defender in the mould of a James Tarkowski for example who would not block his path and may not cost near the £25 million upper limit. I could go on. I was merely identifying the gaps I see in the squad and how much may be necessary to spend to plug them well enough.

Nketiah is a homegrown striker that actually scores goals (England under-21s record scorer). I think £20 million is reasonable. Similarly Guendouzi is having a good season in Germany and should be worth around £20 million. It was only at the start of last season he was being linked with moves to the creme da la creme of world football. Even if you dropped both those fees by £5 million each, that's fine for my major point: you can sell to finance a big buy.

"You go from arguing that Grealish might not qualify for Europa League football with Villa next season to arguing that Aston Villa successfully bumped their squad to challenge for a CL place???"

There is no inconsistency in the argument. Villa are challenging for European places including the Champions League at around the halfway mark of the season after a good summer of recruitment. That is true.

There is also no guarantee that they finish in any of the European spaces because of how tight the competition is and you would expect the likes of Chelsea and Man City (the teams they are on the same number of points) to pull away owing to the superior quality, depth and experience as the season progresses. That is also true.

The first point highlights that Arsenal remain a step up from Villa, historically and in the present day. The second point is to highlight that the jump from where Villa finished last year (17th and one point above relegation) to where they are now shows how shrewd work in the market that change your fortunes.

I'm not against your model of finding value where others are yet too. I've made the clear. It's about quality and the right profile at the end of the day. But I also think when a marquee player is available that suits a critical need you have, you should do your best to sign him.

Even if we just signed Grealish, a top #10, and a back-up goalkeeper in the summer. That would be enough to push up right up into contention in my opinion.

 

[truth_hurts]

The sad thing is, we could probably get Grealish. English player record transfer (70m plus) and 200k a week and he signs.